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Post by IsItHIV? on Sept 12, 2018 4:43:54 GMT
There are many documented studies which show HIV infection in the presence of negative results on the tests you are describing. I've posted a few in my first post, and here's another, concerning possible alternate infection profiles that HIV could cause (some seronegative people are positive for DNA fragments on specific unavailable tests, some elite controllers start with an infection that seems to clear): www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X16000033Also, the likelihood everyone who comes to this forum has the same disease as Omar or Old Admin are nil (they didn't even have the same thing). Also, do recall that Omar has proclaimed the best treatment he's tried is ARVs. If somebody contracts HIV, speaks English, and matches the situation where they test negative on all tests, they will undoubtedly find this forum. It's safe to assume that the previous forum, which had about 100 active posters in total, attracted 10 or so undiagnosed HIV patients. We know HIV tests are not perfect, it's silly to believe an HIV seronegative patient will never find this forum The purpose of this thread is to ensure that the HIV speculation remains separated from the rest of the speculation. Be happy that you can direct the next new poster here when they start asking about HIV in the main thread. Whether you like it or not, this topic will continue to surface on this forum. Best to keep all discussion in one spot Another thing that doesn’t fit your statement above: a lot of old patients of this board infected their partners who also tested negative for hiv... would be a 1 in 1.000.000.000.000 that two partners test negative and are both elite controllers with no antibody, no rna and at least one of them no declining cd4. Also over a time period of 6 years that the old board existed... lol well keep trying to convince yourself that this is hiv but your claims are bs. I don't think you are comprehending what I am saying Not everyone that visits this board will have the same diseaseIt's possible that any existing STD, or combination of them, could cause a weird, difficult to identify presentation. On top of that, there is certainly more than one unknown disease out there in the world You can change your name to Bs and think that's cute, but it doesn't change the fact that people get sick with HIV and test consistently negative. It's a documented phenomenon. Now that the world is connected by the internet, you can bet anyone who happens to be that unfortunate one in a million who has the presence of mind to search for answers will find this community. As you are well aware, there's no where else for them to discuss these realities, and the chances they'd find a doctor who could help them would be one in a million Concerning the people infecting their spouses, if the issue is that you've caught a difficult mutation, or rare strain, rather than that you aren't producing antibodies for genetic reasons, then you and your wife will both test negative. If you caught this from a prostitute, a recombination that is missed by tests is a legit concern. If your really think what I am saying is Bs, feel free to refute any of the posts I've made. I have sourced them with published experiments, and I have plenty more papers I haven't posted assuming this discussion has picked up Rumors from China and reports from Omar indicate ARVs are the best treatment for some individuals in our situation. When I say I'm still concerned about HIV, I am including any distantly related retro-virus in that concern, as if such a thing exists, who knows if it will be called HIV III or something new? If it walks like a duck and gets treated like a duck, may as well call it a duck until we know more Finally, I made this thread to help people like you, so that HIV discussion will not clutter the main thread. You should be happy that this thread exists, as you can simply avoid it if you do not want to discuss a potential HIV infection. Please do us the courtesy of not mucking up this thread, as we are posting in it so that we will not offend you in the main thread
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Post by IsItHIV? on Sept 12, 2018 4:50:03 GMT
How does the highly contagious nature of this disease fit into this theory? If you have passed your illness to others without intimate contact, you certainly don't have HIV And once again, the chances everyone posting on this or the prior forum have the same disease is slim I do wonder about the "highly contagious" claims that circulated the old forum, though... If a new highly contagious disease as debilitating as what I've caught truly existed, it would have been discovered by now. If people were catching this from the air, it would not be ignored If you believe you have passed this to someone, but their symptoms very significantly and they are not chronically ill, bare in mind that they may have caught something else, or even a secondary infection that you are carrying. If your immune system is weekend, it's possible you could pick up other bugs and spread them around In my case, I had an exposure that put me at significant risk for HIV, and I have not passed what I caught to anyone, even via shared living/close contact
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Post by Jit on Sept 13, 2018 1:20:47 GMT
How does the highly contagious nature of this disease fit into this theory? If you have passed your illness to others without intimate contact, you certainly don't have HIV And once again, the chances everyone posting on this or the prior forum have the same disease is slim I do wonder about the "highly contagious" claims that circulated the old forum, though... If a new highly contagious disease as debilitating as what I've caught truly existed, it would have been discovered by now. If people were catching this from the air, it would not be ignored If you believe you have passed this to someone, but their symptoms very significantly and they are not chronically ill, bare in mind that they may have caught something else, or even a secondary infection that you are carrying. If your immune system is weekend, it's possible you could pick up other bugs and spread them around In my case, I had an exposure that put me at significant risk for HIV, and I have not passed what I caught to anyone, even via shared living/close contact The old forum was not a generic "unknown disease" forum. It was for a disease with a very specific set of symptoms, and from the very beginning nearly everyone reported that it was highly contagious and had spread to their family, friends, and colleagues. You can dismiss the dozens of anecdotal reports confirming this if you'd like, but having seen it first hand I think it is something to take seriously, and is a defining factor of the illness. I have no doubt that some of the things mentioned in this thread are true, but unless HIV has mutated into an undetectable strain and gone airborne (which it might have) then I don't think this is relevant for most of us. There are certainly people on this board who have something different, and they should be segregated into their own forum in my opinion. If we are ever going to get to the bottom of this it's important that this doesn't turn into a free for all along the lines of Phoenix Rising which IS essentially a generic "unknown disease" forum. Without a solid hypothesis to explain the contagiousness I think this thread can be viewed as separate from the rest of the forum.
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Post by In the beginning on Sept 17, 2018 20:13:56 GMT
www.fms-help.com/aids.htmI would just like to share this as it is relatively well outlined. I would mostly like to use it to point out that presenting textbook hiv symptoms however continuing to test negative is not a new phenomena nor should it be mistaken as such. What everybody here is experiencing (hiv symptoms but negative tests) has existed since the beginning of the hiv epidemic. I’m curious if I’m the only one who finds it a little more than coincidental? Is it quite possible that by the looks of it CFS/CFIDS/ME/NON HIV AIDS/HIV/Unknown STD are all one in the same? Given that they all share incredibly similar symptoms and simultaneously came into existence. The only varying factor is that some receive a positive hiv test (which we already know are not 100% reliable due to false negatives which can and do occur). As a very important note remember even in those who do receive a positive hiv diagnosis, symptom presentation still does widely vary from no symptoms at all to mild ones all the way up to debilitating symptoms. So minor variances in symptoms amongst ourselves should in no way be used as validation that what we are experiencing could not possibly be accredited to hiv. I find it peculiar that we understand how hiv affects the human body and the best they can come up with for individuals presenting persistent hiv symptoms for longer than 6 months with negative tests is a diagnosis of CFS (an “untreatable” condition). We all know there is an incubation period in which hiv is undetectable in the blood and in tests yet does exist and is multiplying in tissue. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171019100818.htmRemember biology does not care about time (which is a man made construct) Lastly I’d like everybody to remember that when people throw percentages around to make it seem like testing positive after years of negative tests is impossible. It is not impossible it merely means the odds of it happening to somebody is slim but lest we not forget it can and does happen to somebody somewhere. Remember America alone averages 40,000-50,000 hiv diagnosis’s a year so 0.1% annually is still 40 to 50 people a year that will take beyond a year to test positive(nobody ever specified wheather that would be 13 months or 13 years). Once you begin to look around at the amount of people discussing the topic the Numbers start to show what’s more than likely happening here. Also note that these forums are not restricted solely to American users so that only increases the odds of this happening to more than 50 people annually.
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wait for ape test result
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Post by wait for ape test result on Sept 18, 2018 0:55:13 GMT
www.fms-help.com/aids.htmI would just like to share this as it is relatively well outlined. I would mostly like to use it to point out that presenting textbook hiv symptoms however continuing to test negative is not a new phenomena nor should it be mistaken as such. What everybody here is experiencing (hiv symptoms but negative tests) has existed since the beginning of the hiv epidemic. I’m curious if I’m the only one who finds it a little more than coincidental? Is it quite possible that by the looks of it CFS/CFIDS/ME/NON HIV AIDS/HIV/Unknown STD are all one in the same? Given that they all share incredibly similar symptoms and simultaneously came into existence. The only varying factor is that some receive a positive hiv test (which we already know are not 100% reliable due to false negatives which can and do occur). As a very important note remember even in those who do receive a positive hiv diagnosis, symptom presentation still does widely vary from no symptoms at all to mild ones all the way up to debilitating symptoms. So minor variances in symptoms amongst ourselves should in no way be used as validation that what we are experiencing could not possibly be accredited to hiv. I find it peculiar that we understand how hiv affects the human body and the best they can come up with for individuals presenting persistent hiv symptoms for longer than 6 months with negative tests is a diagnosis of CFS (an “untreatable” condition). We all know there is an incubation period in which hiv is undetectable in the blood and in tests yet does exist and is multiplying in tissue. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171019100818.htmRemember biology does not care about time (which is a man made construct) Lastly I’d like everybody to remember that when people throw percentages around to make it seem like testing positive after years of negative tests is impossible. It is not impossible it merely means the odds of it happening to somebody is slim but lest we not forget it can and does happen to somebody somewhere. Remember America alone averages 40,000-50,000 hiv diagnosis’s a year so 0.1% annually is still 40 to 50 people a year that will take beyond a year to test positive(nobody ever specified wheather that would be 13 months or 13 years). Once you begin to look around at the amount of people discussing the topic the Numbers start to show what’s more than likely happening here. Also note that these forums are not restricted solely to American users so that only increases the odds of this happening to more than 50 people annually. please wait for ape test result。we know work with another labs try to work it out 。we dont think it is hiv but similar。if you test 5 years antibody,hiv still -------the talking thing,last for dacade,and useless。the reason old admin close forum isn't talking thing but the result is something like hiv、
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Post by IsItHIV? on Sept 18, 2018 1:14:17 GMT
If you have passed your illness to others without intimate contact, you certainly don't have HIV And once again, the chances everyone posting on this or the prior forum have the same disease is slim I do wonder about the "highly contagious" claims that circulated the old forum, though... If a new highly contagious disease as debilitating as what I've caught truly existed, it would have been discovered by now. If people were catching this from the air, it would not be ignored If you believe you have passed this to someone, but their symptoms very significantly and they are not chronically ill, bare in mind that they may have caught something else, or even a secondary infection that you are carrying. If your immune system is weekend, it's possible you could pick up other bugs and spread them around In my case, I had an exposure that put me at significant risk for HIV, and I have not passed what I caught to anyone, even via shared living/close contact The old forum was not a generic "unknown disease" forum. It was for a disease with a very specific set of symptoms, and from the very beginning nearly everyone reported that it was highly contagious and had spread to their family, friends, and colleagues. You can dismiss the dozens of anecdotal reports confirming this if you'd like, but having seen it first hand I think it is something to take seriously, and is a defining factor of the illness. I have no doubt that some of the things mentioned in this thread are true, but unless HIV has mutated into an undetectable strain and gone airborne (which it might have) then I don't think this is relevant for most of us. There are certainly people on this board who have something different, and they should be segregated into their own forum in my opinion. If we are ever going to get to the bottom of this it's important that this doesn't turn into a free for all along the lines of Phoenix Rising which IS essentially a generic "unknown disease" forum. Without a solid hypothesis to explain the contagiousness I think this thread can be viewed as separate from the rest of the forum. The hypothetical disease covered by this forum does not have a very specific set of symptoms: unknown-std-id.boards.net/thread/13/symptomsThe set of symptoms described here are wide, varied, and generic. This is why after four years, this forum couldn't even determine the type of organism causing the disease. The symptoms match viral infections (HIV, HTLV, various herpes, hepatitis), bacterial infections (lyme, syphilis), fungal infections, parasites, auto-immune conditions (which may turn out to be caused by one of the above), etc. Most everyone here does not exhibit every symptom listed, and the distributions of the listed symptoms varies from person to person. Plus, the symptoms are self reported and prone to bias. Those symptoms are general symptoms of systemic, chronic illness. It's why we have had so many people chase "lyme", which is basically based off of the same idea The contagiousness of people visiting the old forum was also widely variable. Some reported only passing it to romantic partners (though many of them reported using protection). Others reported that their whole town was infected. Some claimed they hadn't spread it to anybody. Some claimed they spread it to their kids or pets. Someone claimed they spread it to a coworker by loaning them their keys... And then there's the legitimacy of the "spread" that those spreading it widely report. Some insisted they spread it to coworkers, who had gained a chronic cough, and bags under their eyes. Some claimed they spread it to people, but those people did not have the white tongue. Very few reported that whoever they spread it to showed the exact same presentation My view on all of this is that it's impossible to tell what you are spreading if you don't know what you have. You could be spreading the same thing and it infects others differently, you could be spreading a secondary infection, or you could be drawing the wrong connections (i.e. your coworker caught something from elsewhere) because you desperately want whatever you have to be airborne. If this disease is truly airborne, I'd expect a lot more activity on the old forum, a lot more activity on Phoenix Rising, a lot more activity on lyme forums, etc, and perhaps some acknowledgement from the CDC. One thing we all seem to agree is that this disease is debilitating. I don't think people who caught it casually would ignore it. As it stands, even swingers, porn stars, and the gay community don't seem to be fretting over an unknown disease in their ranks. The only solid block of concern we have is hidden in China, where superstition runs rampant, medical knowledge isn't up to par, and government censorship obfuscates things. It would be impossible to segregate people who have something "different" into their own forum, at least until we can identify some characteristic that is unique to the hypothetical disease we are chasing. But, that is exactly what I'm attempting with this thread. At least those who acknowledge that they had an HIV risk, and understand that it's possible to test negative despite infection can come to this thread instead of the other one
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Post by In the beginning on Sept 18, 2018 3:55:38 GMT
ScaredMatt remember hiv doesn’t apply to you. Don’t be scared. Being accepting of whatever is inevitably coming is the best thing for all of us to be. Let’s face it. The action which has already set in motion a chain of events leading us to our our inevitable fate can never be undone. There are worse outcomes than hiv. Since what you have is not hiv hopefully it’s not 1million times worse than hiv and untreatable. Wouldn’t that be a far worse fate? The only reason you’re still a mess is because you have not surrendered to the inevitable. Take a deep breath, take it one day at a time and understand all we can do at this point regardless of what it is is enjoy the life that we do have. Regardless of what it is. I’m broken over whatever it is too. But all we can do is live life take an occasional test and let all the manageable aspects of this roll off our backs. Enjoy the days we have before the hard days that we fear may be ahead actually present themselves. Regardless the best move is surrender power to the unknown and do what you can to be the man you want to be remembered as. The serenity prayer really puts things into perspective per situations such as this. Managing the mental aspect of this is the tricky part. Much of all the ailments of it is highly inconvenient and uncomfortable. But the hard part is how psychologically unsettling everything is. Once you accept the fact that life is always changing and this is just another change to accept. Life as we knew it is over, we burned down the bridge to our old life and are living under different pretenses and circumstances. Digesting it sucks but the sooner you accept this is our new reality the better you’ll be. Don’t stress it just think about it like this. “It’s either something serious.... or it’s nothing at all. But you’re doing everything you can” “Don't worry about the future. Or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum.” -Baz Luhrman
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Post by In the beginning on Sept 18, 2018 4:08:42 GMT
Also getting an rna pcr test is simple once an infectious disease dr is selected. Once a dr/patient relationship is established an rna Pcr or 4th gen test is easily scheduled Via a phone call to the dr for the occasional lab visit. They take 2 vials of blood and results are received via email or collected once results become available.
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Post by In the beginning on Sept 18, 2018 4:38:55 GMT
Also mod I’d like to ask what question posed in the hiv thread that went unanswered? It was a bit of complaining by people asking for the thread to be closed because of their fear due to the understanding hiv is possible no matter how improbable. Only 1 question was posed which was addressed by another forum member in the time I was not here. Please anybody concerned who would like to explore the possibility feel free to chime in but please only in the hiv thread.
Jit Sep 11, 2018 at 10:00pm Quote How does the highly contagious nature of this disease fit into this theory?
IsItHIV? Sep 11, 2018 at 11:50pm Quote If you have passed your illness to others without intimate contact, you certainly don't have HIV
And once again, the chances everyone posting on this or the prior forum have the same disease is slim
I do wonder about the "highly contagious" claims that circulated the old forum, though...
If a new highly contagious disease as debilitating as what I've caught truly existed, it would have been discovered by now. If people were catching this from the air, it would not be ignored
If you believe you have passed this to someone, but their symptoms very significantly and they are not chronically ill, bare in mind that they may have caught something else, or even a secondary infection that you are carrying. If your immune system is weekend, it's possible you could pick up other bugs and spread them around
In my case, I had an exposure that put me at significant risk for HIV, and I have not passed what I caught to anyone, even via shared living/close contact
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mod18
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Post by mod18 on Sept 18, 2018 13:06:48 GMT
Another thing that doesn’t fit your statement above: a lot of old patients of this board infected their partners who also tested negative for hiv... would be a 1 in 1.000.000.000.000 that two partners test negative and are both elite controllers with no antibody, no rna and at least one of them no declining cd4. Also over a time period of 6 years that the old board existed... lol well keep trying to convince yourself that this is hiv but your claims are bs. I don't think you are comprehending what I am saying Not everyone that visits this board will have the same diseaseYou don't know this, and it is not clear why you are making this assumption. I've talked to many people since I got sick and even though I did not collect statistical information I would say that majority, at least 80, but probably as high as 90% of people who come to this board do in fact have the same thing. No on bothered doing statistical symptom analysis lately, but I think it was done on the old forum. In any case your claim is false simply because it is not based nothing at all, so you are wrong here. "It's possible that any existing STD, or combination of them, could cause a weird, difficult to identify presentation. On top of that, there is certainly more than one unknown disease out there in the world"Anything is possible, the purpose of this forum is to find out what is happening exactly and not wonder of all the possibilities. If you're not on the same path as majority people on this forum - you are free to leave, to stop posting, because you have not said even a single useful thing so far really. You keep bringing up the late serocoversion topic without bringing any evidence of it applying to us in any way. You were given multiple arguments as to why it does not. If you want it so much to be true and want to be talking to like-minded people, you should really think about opening your own board and stop posting here period. Your theories do not make sense to the slightest, you want every one of us to think we have late serconversion HIV without any proof whatsoever and then to just give up, "accept it as fact of life". This is not an HIV support forum, the overwhelming evidence is that we don't have HIV and the idea behind this forum is to actually try to figure out what is happening to us and not just give up. So close to a last warning for you here -stop doing what you're doing or I'll have to start deleting your posts. "But it doesn't change the fact that people get sick with HIV and test consistently negative"Show me a single case where person "was infected" with HIV and tests consistently with all four tests that we discussed here. What you're saying here does not make any sense what so ever. "If your really think what I am saying is Bs, feel free to refute any of the posts I've made. I have sourced them with published experiments, and I have plenty more papers I haven't posted assuming this discussion has picked up "You haven't sourced anything because you sources and you claims and arguments don't add up, you were shown already how most of the experiments and papers you cite do not apply to us in any way at all because none of us was HIV positive at any point of the disease progression. All you are doing is bending facts to fit your narrative and I start to wonder what is the reason for being so stubborn with what you're doing. "Rumors from China and reports from Omar indicate ARVs are the best treatment for some individuals in our situation. When I say I'm still concerned about HIV, I am including any distantly related retro-virus in that concern, as if such a thing exists, who knows if it will be called HIV III or something new? If it walks like a duck and gets treated like a duck, may as well call it a duck until we know more "We also cannot say that it behaves like HIV, there are some resemblances, but they are not consistent enough to make any conclusions. Many people do not even have enlarged with lymph nodes, many people do not get any abnormalities with immune cells or inverted CD4/CD8 ratios, so you certainly cannot say that this thing just like HIV. Maybe it is some other retrovirus, maybe it is HIV III, but we have no proof of this and it is unusual for it to be so different from any other retrovirus that Aperiomics sequencing would not pick up at least traces of pieces of it. Besides that by current definition HIV is considered to be HIV if it is either one of two strains HIV I or HIV II and since we definitely do not have either, the title of this thread is not valid, you arguments do not apply. "Finally, I made this thread to help people like you, so that HIV discussion will not clutter the main thread. You should be happy that this thread exists, as you can simply avoid it if you do not want to discuss a potential HIV infection. Please do us the courtesy of not mucking up this thread, as we are posting in it so that we will not offend you in the main thread"
No need to be telling others what they should or should not be happy about, everyone here is an adult and can determine what path they take with their investigation and what they do or do not want to read and how they want to reply. The only person that has been mucking things so far have been you by showing up and starting pushing long time abandoned theory, which you are responsible for proving or at least supporting with proper arguments and which you have failed to do so far completely. Also stop with all this "accept and enjoy the rest of your life" crap .Yes the progress has been shit overall and yes some people will get tired and give up from all this and many do, but if we are to ever figure out what is happening at least some of us should not give up in our research and hopefully some of us won't. What we are dealing with is not HIV (HIV I or HIV II). It is way more contagious then HIV, the symptoms are quite different, the list of condition that can develop after infection is nothing like HIV, very few if any people get consistent HIV-like immune impairment, onset of symptoms for many is way shorter then HIV, no one has EVER tested positive for HIV with ANY of the tests. THIS IS NOT HIV. All this HIV talk is complete and utter nonsense that is taking away resources from us trying to actually figure out what is happening, so stop doing what you're doing because it's become too annoying and while I really do not like deleting stuff, you have failed to produce any constructive conversation whatsoever with this topic that you started. Either start producing logical arguments and evidence or stop this immediately, because otherwise I'll have to start deleting your posts and be sure I'll be providing better arguments of why I do it then you have done so far to support your utter nonsense theory. I also do not want to see any additional explanations or excuses. You either have something to say of value or you don't.
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mod18
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Post by mod18 on Sept 18, 2018 13:15:34 GMT
Also mod I’d like to ask what question posed in the hiv thread that went unanswered? It was a bit of complaining by people asking for the thread to be closed because of their fear due to the understanding hiv is possible no matter how improbable. It is not possible because no one has tested positive with any of the tests EVER. Not sure which part does not add up for you here. "If you have passed your illness to others without intimate contact, you certainly don't have HIV."And it just happens that many if not most people do observe this, yes, we don't have HIV. "And once again, the chances everyone posting on this or the prior forum have the same disease is slim"Again, you don't know this. "If a new highly contagious disease as debilitating as what I've caught truly existed, it would have been discovered by now. If people were catching this from the air, it would not be ignored"Would have, should have, could have, it hasn't been discovered, that's why we are stuck here. "If you believe you have passed this to someone, but their symptoms very significantly and they are not chronically ill, bare in mind that they may have caught something else, or even a secondary infection that you are carrying. If your immune system is weekend, it's possible you could pick up other bugs and spread them around"Yeah..., could have. Yet what we see is what we see that this thing can produce a variety of inconsistently different symptoms in different people. "In my case, I had an exposure that put me at significant risk for HIV, and I have not passed what I caught to anyone, even via shared living/close contact"
Good for you, maybe then you should then hangout on HIV forum and not here, or start your own.
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mod18
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Post by mod18 on Sept 18, 2018 13:30:01 GMT
Also getting an rna pcr test is simple once an infectious disease dr is selected. Once a dr/patient relationship is established an rna Pcr or 4th gen test is easily scheduled Via a phone call to the dr for the occasional lab visit. They take 2 vials of blood and results are received via email or collected once results become available. This is simply not true, because usually you cannot get PCR or Western Blot done unless you test positive with ELSA to which many older members who tried this in the past can attest. You are doing a very sloppy job at whatever you're trying to do here. How about trying to prove this nonsense theory to yourself before pushing it so aggressively as to misleading unsuspecting others???
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Post by IsItHIV? on Sept 18, 2018 22:17:41 GMT
I don't think you are comprehending what I am saying Not everyone that visits this board will have the same diseaseYou don't know this, and it is not clear why you are making this assumption. I've talked to many people since I got sick and even though I did not collect statistical information I would say that majority, at least 80, but probably as high as 90% of people who come to this board do in fact have the same thing. No on bothered doing statistical symptom analysis lately, but I think it was done on the old forum. In any case your claim is false simply because it is not based nothing at all, so you are wrong here. "It's possible that any existing STD, or combination of them, could cause a weird, difficult to identify presentation. On top of that, there is certainly more than one unknown disease out there in the world"Anything is possible, the purpose of this forum is to find out what is happening exactly and not wonder of all the possibilities. If you're not on the same path as majority people on this forum - you are free to leave, to stop posting, because you have not said even a single useful thing so far really. You keep bringing up the late serocoversion topic without bringing any evidence of it applying to us in any way. You were given multiple arguments as to why it does not. If you want it so much to be true and want to be talking to like-minded people, you should really think about opening your own board and stop posting here period. Your theories do not make sense to the slightest, you want every one of us to think we have late serconversion HIV without any proof whatsoever and then to just give up, "accept it as fact of life". This is not an HIV support forum, the overwhelming evidence is that we don't have HIV and the idea behind this forum is to actually try to figure out what is happening to us and not just give up. So close to a last warning for you here -stop doing what you're doing or I'll have to start deleting your posts. "But it doesn't change the fact that people get sick with HIV and test consistently negative"Show me a single case where person "was infected" with HIV and tests consistently with all four tests that we discussed here. What you're saying here does not make any sense what so ever. "If your really think what I am saying is Bs, feel free to refute any of the posts I've made. I have sourced them with published experiments, and I have plenty more papers I haven't posted assuming this discussion has picked up "You haven't sourced anything because you sources and you claims and arguments don't add up, you were shown already how most of the experiments and papers you cite do not apply to us in any way at all because none of us was HIV positive at any point of the disease progression. All you are doing is bending facts to fit your narrative and I start to wonder what is the reason for being so stubborn with what you're doing. "Rumors from China and reports from Omar indicate ARVs are the best treatment for some individuals in our situation. When I say I'm still concerned about HIV, I am including any distantly related retro-virus in that concern, as if such a thing exists, who knows if it will be called HIV III or something new? If it walks like a duck and gets treated like a duck, may as well call it a duck until we know more "We also cannot say that it behaves like HIV, there are some resemblances, but they are not consistent enough to make any conclusions. Many people do not even have enlarged with lymph nodes, many people do not get any abnormalities with immune cells or inverted CD4/CD8 ratios, so you certainly cannot say that this thing just like HIV. Maybe it is some other retrovirus, maybe it is HIV III, but we have no proof of this and it is unusual for it to be so different from any other retrovirus that Aperiomics sequencing would not pick up at least traces of pieces of it. Besides that by current definition HIV is considered to be HIV if it is either one of two strains HIV I or HIV II and since we definitely do not have either, the title of this thread is not valid, you arguments do not apply. "Finally, I made this thread to help people like you, so that HIV discussion will not clutter the main thread. You should be happy that this thread exists, as you can simply avoid it if you do not want to discuss a potential HIV infection. Please do us the courtesy of not mucking up this thread, as we are posting in it so that we will not offend you in the main thread"
No need to be telling others what they should or should not be happy about, everyone here is an adult and can determine what path they take with their investigation and what they do or do not want to read and how they want to reply. The only person that has been mucking things so far have been you by showing up and starting pushing long time abandoned theory, which you are responsible for proving or at least supporting with proper arguments and which you have failed to do so far completely. Also stop with all this "accept and enjoy the rest of your life" crap .Yes the progress has been shit overall and yes some people will get tired and give up from all this and many do, but if we are to ever figure out what is happening at least some of us should not give up in our research and hopefully some of us won't. What we are dealing with is not HIV (HIV I or HIV II). It is way more contagious then HIV, the symptoms are quite different, the list of condition that can develop after infection is nothing like HIV, very few if any people get consistent HIV-like immune impairment, onset of symptoms for many is way shorter then HIV, no one has EVER tested positive for HIV with ANY of the tests. THIS IS NOT HIV. All this HIV talk is complete and utter nonsense that is taking away resources from us trying to actually figure out what is happening, so stop doing what you're doing because it's become too annoying and while I really do not like deleting stuff, you have failed to produce any constructive conversation whatsoever with this topic that you started. Either start producing logical arguments and evidence or stop this immediately, because otherwise I'll have to start deleting your posts and be sure I'll be providing better arguments of why I do it then you have done so far to support your utter nonsense theory. I also do not want to see any additional explanations or excuses. You either have something to say of value or you don't. Look, I'm not going to respond to this point by point because you seem to be confusing me with the user "In the beginning", whom I have rebuked for misinterpreting HIV information in this very thread. Take a look at my posts if you really care, I have indeed posted information about late seroconverters, elite controllers, co-infections, infections missed by most tests etc that can cause HIV to present as we have it. I have plenty more information but haven't posted it yet as there's no real discussion here aside from "In the beginning"s concern trolling and someone else flipping out in here because they don't want to have HIV. Once we get passed that stuff, there's legitimate science worth considering that shows an occult HIV infection would explain the issues some people on this forum are grappling with Concerning everyone having the same thing, you have no more evidence that they do then I have that they don't. You are going off of reports of symptoms. There's a reason doctors dismiss people regularly based on such reports. Two of the diseases we have had to consider on the prior forum (lyme and syphilis) are known as "the great imitators" precisely because symptoms are not a reliable diagnosis method. What I do have backing up my position is simple probability. The likelihood that there is only one unknown debilitating disease is not high, and becomes even less high when you try to attribute instances of said disease to issues in every corner of the world. There are mathematical models for how diseases spread, and our lumping of folks sick in China, Russia, Japan, Europe, US, Mexico doesn't exactly fit the models. There is also the fact that medical tests aren't perfect, and diseases affect each other in strange ways, and genetics change presentations of illness. These concepts dovetail towards the idea that you will get people here who have been infected with something else; it's inevitable. Much like lyme boards have symptoms and presentations all over the map, as do CFS boards. Occasionally people on those boards get a true diagnosis and are treated. The same happened at the old forum. Some left after a prostititis diagnosis, some left after a lyme diagnosis, some claimed they just "got better". You were the one who suggested a separate topic be made for HIV concerns, so I made one: "If you want to continue the topic that you have started I suggest you start a new thread. I also want to be upfront and I definitely do not want to come around as rude or dictatorial, but I cannot guarantee that your thread or posts won't be deleted should there be extreme fallacy of logic." If you've noticed any extreme fallacy to my logic, let me know and I will clarify You could just blast this thread if you like, or you could try to learn why this is a concern. Read the links I posted (not stuff from "In the beginning") and decide if identifying HIV infections is really so cut and dry. You claim the stuff I have posted has been refuted, but it hasn't. No one has commented on any of the links I've posted. People will continue to worry about HIV here, they are still doing it in the main thread. It will benefit everyone if the HIV stuff is discussed in it's own topic, as you wisely recommended
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mod18
New Member
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Post by mod18 on Sept 19, 2018 3:32:07 GMT
Look, I'm not going to respond to this point by point because you seem to be confusing me with the user "In the beginning", whom I have rebuked for misinterpreting HIV information in this very thread. Take a look at my posts if you really care, I have indeed posted information about late seroconverters, elite controllers, co-infections, infections missed by most tests etc that can cause HIV to present as we have it. I have plenty more information but haven't posted it yet as there's no real discussion here aside from "In the beginning"s concern trolling and someone else flipping out in here because they don't want to have HIV. Once we get passed that stuff, there's legitimate science worth considering that shows an occult HIV infection would explain the issues some people on this forum are grappling with Concerning everyone having the same thing, you have no more evidence that they do then I have that they don't. You are going off of reports of symptoms. There's a reason doctors dismiss people regularly based on such reports. Two of the diseases we have had to consider on the prior forum (lyme and syphilis) are known as "the great imitators" precisely because symptoms are not a reliable diagnosis method. What I do have backing up my position is simple probability. The likelihood that there is only one unknown debilitating disease is not high, and becomes even less high when you try to attribute instances of said disease to issues in every corner of the world. There are mathematical models for how diseases spread, and our lumping of folks sick in China, Russia, Japan, Europe, US, Mexico doesn't exactly fit the models. There is also the fact that medical tests aren't perfect, and diseases affect each other in strange ways, and genetics change presentations of illness. These concepts dovetail towards the idea that you will get people here who have been infected with something else; it's inevitable. Much like lyme boards have symptoms and presentations all over the map, as do CFS boards. Occasionally people on those boards get a true diagnosis and are treated. The same happened at the old forum. Some left after a prostititis diagnosis, some left after a lyme diagnosis, some claimed they just "got better". You were the one who suggested a separate topic be made for HIV concerns, so I made one: "If you want to continue the topic that you have started I suggest you start a new thread. I also want to be upfront and I definitely do not want to come around as rude or dictatorial, but I cannot guarantee that your thread or posts won't be deleted should there be extreme fallacy of logic." If you've noticed any extreme fallacy to my logic, let me know and I will clarify You could just blast this thread if you like, or you could try to learn why this is a concern. Read the links I posted (not stuff from "In the beginning") and decide if identifying HIV infections is really so cut and dry. You claim the stuff I have posted has been refuted, but it hasn't. No one has commented on any of the links I've posted. People will continue to worry about HIV here, they are still doing it in the main thread. It will benefit everyone if the HIV stuff is discussed in it's own topic, as you wisely recommended Of course I don't have evidence that everyone has the same thing. I do think that it is possible that the majority here do have the same thing, in fact I think they do, but I have no way to prove it, so I'm not too pushy with this idea. I think people can make their own conclusions and when they see a big chunk of symptoms overlapping it is only natural to assume they have the same or similar thing going on, even though it might not be the case. But regardless of all that - Chinese group has done some serious symptom and blood work analysis which did show some very unusual and characteristic similarities in majority of Chinese patients and our symptoms match closely. Omar and some others did inflammatory marker analysis and their results matched to Chinese results too. Why would we now suddenly ignore that? Yes, I did not realize you are not "In the beginning", but you could reply to me there nonetheless. My replies there carry the overall message why majority of people here don't think we have HIV and why this discussion is useless. A point I want to make here too is that it is your responsibility to prove your nonsense theory and not the other way around, not for us to go out of our way to disprove your nonsense when this has been all discussed inside out by many people before. If you really want to do it and think you can do it - you need some real facts. At this point it really starts looking that you have nothing, because what both of you have posted so far has been criticized and refuted by other people who were following this thread. With the same approach some other guy can start his topic telling every one of us has Syphylis or Lyme or TB and put the burden of disproving his nonsense claims on other members of our forum. If you have a theory - it is your job to work on proving it, not our job to work on disproving it. Yes I did suggest creating another thread, primarily because every older member has been there already and as a whole we have enough proof, which was mentioned here, that this is thing we are dealing with is not HIV, that's why I suspected your theory has no good arguments. I also suspected this conversation will turn into shit show the way it did, and it did because neither you nor 'in the beginning' produced anything useful at all. Having said that - sure, give it another try, bring your best facts, arguments, articles. Do it in condensed, summarized points form and not just through a bunch of links and quoted text that does not apply to our situation and does not make sense in a coherent logical conversation. I doubt you'll succeed because you would bring your best facts right at the beginning of this conversation and for some odd reason you did not do it, but sure, let's assume you're not that good at this thing you're doing here - give it another try, maybe third time is the charm. I can't promise you that I'll reply keep replying, because I'm starting to have doubts about either your mental capacity or honesty of your position. For some hard to understand reason you seem to really want this to be HIV even through most direct facts work against your theory. Beats me..
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Post by can you on Sept 21, 2018 6:24:59 GMT
can you stop guess? There is a way to find HIV experts on Facebook or twitter. They directly communicated with NIH. The lab too slow and has little effect on this matter. It is an effective way to report to NIH through well-known bloggers. can you organize and do something useful.
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